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Kelp could be an extraordinary tool for long-term carbon sequestration. It also happens to be delicious.
And that’s why Matt Kern is on a mission to promote kelp farming in his home state of Alaska and replace some of the more carbon-intensive foods in our diet with seaweed.
Matt Kern is the Cofounder of Barnacle Foods, a food manufacturing business based in Juneau that uses Alaskan kelp as its principal ingredient.
On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Matt joins Ross to discuss how his team sources kelp in a sustainable way and describe what differentiates foraged food from farmed.
Matt explores why seaweed is not more popular in the US and explains what Barnacle Foods is doing to introduce consumers to the savory, rich flavors of bull kelp.
Listen in to understand what makes kelp a fast, efficient tool for carbon sequestration and find out where you can go to try Barnacle Foods’ hot sauce, seasonings, pickles, and other provisions.
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Full Transcript
Alexsandra Guerra: You’re listening to the Reversing Climate Change podcast by the team at Nori, the carbon removal marketplace. This is a show about the innovators and entrepreneurs developing solutions to climate change.
Ross Kenyon: Hello and welcome to the Reversing Climate Change podcast with Nori. I’m Ross Kenyon. I’m the creative editor at Nori. Today I have with me Matt Kern, one of the co-founders of Barnacle Foods. Welcome to the show, Matt.
Matt Kern: Hi, Ross. Thanks for having me. Good to be here.
Ross Kenyon: Good to have you here. I’m pretty sure I found out about Barnacle Foods because of a well-placed Facebook ad. I think that’s what happened because now I’m just a sucker, as I was telling you before. The algorithm just knows I want to buy regenerative products. And now you people just prey on me, trying to sell me expensive vinegars that I do buy. You are selling a whole bunch of amazing products out of Alaska, many of which feature kelp. It definitely caught my eye. The company’s called Nori. I care about marine permaculture, aquaculture, trying to figure out how to heal the oceans and climate change.
I don’t know. It just seemed like a good fit to me. So whoever does your advertising and design, they worked right into my brain. And I’m grateful for that. Thanks for being here. Maybe you should tell the listeners about what Barnacle Foods is if I didn’t already spoil that for you.
Matt Kern: Sounds good, Ross. And I will pass along your compliments to the marketing team. We’re super glad we caught your attention and got you to take a dip into Alaskan kelp on your dinner plate. That is a big part of what we’re trying to do is attract attention and intrigue and action around people eating kelp. And we are a food manufacturing business based up here in Juneau, Alaska. We got started about five years ago and we make assorted kelp foods with Alaskan kelp as the principal ingredient in pretty much all the products we make.
We have a couple of non-kelp products as well, but we really emphasize using kelp as the primary ingredient in our foods and it brings just awesome flavor, really deep umami, savory flavor. It’s very nutritious as it’s long been known to provide lots of nutrient value to people and then the other really nice characteristic of kelp is that it’s extremely sustainable and regenerative so Has a lot going for it and there’s a lot of motivation to get it infused into more people’s diets. And so we do that by using it in a line of products that are familiar like hot sauces, salsas, pickles, seasonings, all kinds of things because kelp is such a versatile ingredient.
So I’m curious which products hooked you or what you were excited to taste in your sampling that The bullet hot sauce was the first to go.
Ross Kenyon: I think that was the first thing I ran out of. I was like, dang, that’s a really good sauce. For some reason, in the last couple of months, I went spice crazy. I’ve been describing it as having spice mouth now or like spice tooth. I guess I could say I have a spice tooth. I don’t know where it came from because I wasn’t always like this, but now I’m just obsessed with with getting nice vinegary, acidic, spicy additions to food. So I really like that hot sauce. Love pickles, too. I ate those pickles pretty quick.
I had salsa. I also had a I thought I haven’t finished this all yet, but there’s some sort of furikake kind of mix where there’s sesame seeds. Is it furikake inspired that shaker?
Matt Kern: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. We have some dried kelp products that are a little more in the conventional line of kelp products like a firakake and some straight kelp seasonings.
Ross Kenyon: Yeah. Really delicious stuff, though. How does one get all this kelp? We’ve done some shows before about marine farming. Nothing that has gone so far as being foraged. And I think you’re more on the forage side, but I’m curious how you source these ingredients in a sustainable way.
Matt Kern: Yeah, that’s a big part of our business. And one of the unusual and challenging aspects of running our business is the main ingredient in all of our products is Alaskan kelp. And right now, that’s not an ingredient that we can just go source and buy from a vendor. We really started out Working on the supply chain from zero and have started to create more of a formal supply chain. And so right now we are getting our kelp through both wild forage kelp around Alaska, as well as starting to partner with kelp farms who are growing kelp on rope lined farms throughout Alaska.
And when we started our business, There was whispers and ideas around kelp farming on the horizon in Alaska specifically, but it was still a few years out from implementation. And we started the business with a goal that within two to three years, we’d start to partner with these kelp farms and over time source a higher and higher proportion of our kelp through the farms. And that trajectory played out Actually, very closely in reality, I think it was year three, we started actually physically purchasing kelp from some farms. And it’s quite a young industry and a practice around Alaska.
And so there’s a lot of hurdles and challenges around successfully growing kelp. But so far, the results are really promising. And it seems like in future years that we’re going to be able to continue to Meet our increased demand through the farms. And so to go back to the wild kelp side, it’s a very new activity in Alaska to harvest kelp commercially. And so we’ve been starting really carefully with a very scientific and conservative approach because the last thing we want to do is over harvest or do any damage to these beautiful pristine kelp beds.
And so we work with biologists to come up with harvest plans that are very sustainable and cautious in nature and harvest by hand and track our observations over time. And so through that work, we’ve really started to better understand how much kelp is in our region of Alaska, where the kelp beds are, how they’re changing from year to year. And we’re starting to formalize this information to hopefully move forward with a management plan that takes all this into consideration and sets up a really sustainable wild harvesting harvest plan.
Ross Kenyon: Wow, it seems like there’s a lot to it. It always strikes me as more complicated than terrestrial farming. I’m not sure that it always is, but... Seems like you could just buy a piece of land and start farming, but I don’t think you can do that for seabed or ocean. I don’t know if Alaska state law is different in some way, but how does it work? Do you have to lease it from the state or something?
Matt Kern: Yeah, that’s a great topic and something that we’re moving forward in a lot of different ways and partnering with these up-and-coming kelp farmers to figure out the kelp farmers lease requirements. Ocean from the state, that’s correct. And there’s a pretty intense permitting process that takes into consideration what else is going on in the ocean in those locations and if there will be any disturbance from that kelp farm to other activities. And so the permittee or the farmer will put together an application that lays out the design of the farm. How they’re going to manage weather and other uses in the area.
And in the beginning, it was about a two-year turnaround for a farmer to find out if their application would be granted to start their farm. And we’ve come a long ways over the last five years. And so now the wait period is a little bit shorter. And it seems like there’s a lot of interest and support from farmers Our state and the local people to give these kelp farms a try and make sure that it’s done responsibly. But it’s a really high potential industry and very sustainable. And so that process has gotten a little bit easier for kelp farmers to get a lease and start to give it a try.
Ross Kenyon: How do you rank the differences between foraged, wild food, and farmed? And I’m thinking about this in the context of what if you had some sort of marine farm that was functionally the equivalent of terrestrial monoculture, enormous field of corn, no real diversity and Is that something that one should be concerned about or is the scale too small where that doesn’t matter still? How are you thinking about that?
Matt Kern: That’s a great question. We’re definitely cognizant and concerned about any industry that’s going to have large scale effects on the wild ecosystem in our oceans here. The life and the oceans that we have in Alaska are incredibly pristine. And the ecosystems are in great shape here due to the lack of people mostly and the careful management of our resources. And so we want to be careful about implementing large scale industry across the ocean in any type of industry, including kelp farming. And so what we do have going for us here in Alaska, though, is vast scale and The size of our shoreline is just so immense.
We have over 35,000 miles of coastline throughout the state of Alaska. And so even what seems to be right now a large-scale kelp farm of 20 to 100 acres of kelp is just a pinprick on the map when you look at the overall region of Alaska. And so as a few of these kelp farms start to be rolled out and implemented in There is just a lot of space to recover. And if there were any negative impacts, it wouldn’t take down a very large portion of the ecosystem or cause impacts across the scale of our coasts.
And so it seems like a safe undertaking to get started with. And to your question about the qualities of The final product or the seaweeds grown in a big monoculture versus in the wild. We recognize there’s a lot of differences in site selection of wild kelp beds where they thrive or in really specific areas of the ocean. And so I think using the wild kelps as a teaching tool And understanding where the wild kelps thrive to inform the best practices for farming is going to be an important part of mastering this practice.
Ross Kenyon: You said 20 to 100 acres is considered a large kelp farm at this point. Still seems quite petite. What kind of tonnage are they pulling out and how often?
Matt Kern: Yeah, right now the total product Farmed in Alaska is approaching one million pounds of kelp on an annual basis. And that’s across three or four active farms. And so the scale of the farms is still very small and there’s a lot of room to grow. The goal for yields is kind of based on a foot of seed line. And the farms are seeded with these ropes that stretch across buoys and anchors. And I’m not super familiar with what kind of expectations there are around per acre, but the industry as a whole has a lot of room to grow from where it’s at right now with a million pounds of production to scale that up significantly.
Ross Kenyon: Why isn’t the eating of seaweed more popular in the United States? I think for most people, it came probably just through sushi maki rolls, and that was probably the first introduction. But I think it stops there for a lot of people. Do you have any theories on why that might be?
Matt Kern: Yeah, that’s a great question and definitely something we at Barnacle are working to change and get more eaters to include kelp in their daily lifestyles. I think we’ve thought about it in terms of the traditions, the culinary traditions regionally. And in Asia, where seaweed farming and eating has a deep history, You see seaweed as a side with almost every meal or even in the center of the plate for certain types of foods. And so you see seaweed infused in all kinds of recipes. And in the U. S. , we haven’t had seaweed access as prevalent.
And we’ve adopted some of the Asian cuisine and traditions, but all of those recipes use seaweeds that aren’t necessarily indigenous to our oceans here in the U. S. And so what we’re doing is using our local species of seaweed and kelp. Specifically, we’re using bull kelp seaweed as the main ingredient in our foods. And this species of seaweed is only found on the west coast of North America from about Baja California north to the Aleutian chain. And so there’s no long history of using bulk help in foods and recipes based where it has grown and where it thrives.
And so we’re really trying to introduce this local species To the greater culinary world in new ways. And it’s an incredibly delicious and unique species to work with. I think that’s why we’re seeing such great feedback on our products and why people enjoy eating them so much is because this type of kelp lends itself really well to a lot of different types of foods.
Ross Kenyon: I’m trying to think of what was so enjoyable to or why it was so enjoyable to eat and probably the most visible place where one can experience it fully at least that I had was the pickles and of course they’re briny and I like briny things those are always good I feel like there’s a good amount of acid in there too probably just from the yeah from the brine as well so it’s salty I like the surface tension almost of it. There’s like a pop when you bite it. It’s almost like when you eat a firm grape and you feel the skin pop.
Maybe a little bit of that makes it fun. So some of it’s textural. What other tasting notes am I missing? I feel like there has to be more here.
Matt Kern: Yeah, that’s really good observations. One thing that kelp has in it that lends itself to these deep, savory, rich flavors is kelp is a natural source for similar compounds that are in MSG or monosodium glutamate. And so before MSG was refined and made synthetically, the original source for this flavor enhancing compound was by refining seaweeds. And so it just contributes a really rich, savory flavor to the foods that it’s in, which allows flavors to pop a little bit extra and gives it an extra satisfying and delicious flavor. The species we work with, bull kelp, so unique is that for those who aren’t familiar with bull kelp, it’s a macroalgae.
It’s a really large species of seaweed that grows up from the seafloor and can be up to 80 feet in length and grow up to two feet a day.
Ross Kenyon: Is it hollow too?
Matt Kern: Yep, it’s a hollow tube that grows up from the seafloor and has a bulb at the surface that’s full of carbon monoxide that floats at the surface. So that tube coming up from the seafloor is a really thick and crunchy, almost like a vegetable, like a bell pepper with a little extra salt in it.
Ross Kenyon: Yeah, I can see that.
Matt Kern: And so that part of the kelp lends itself really well for pickles, like you mentioned. It has that nice crisp crunch to it. And we also use it in our salsas and hot sauce as a really nice fresh flavor and texture and saltiness. And then bull kelp is super unique in that it has that long hollow tube. And then it also, from the surface, it has incredibly long blades that then... Um, come off of the top of the bulb along the surface of the water and the blades can also be very large up to 20 to 40 feet in length.
And the blades resemble leafs or other, um, seaweed species that are more common on the market. Like nori that lend itself really well to drying. And so bull kelp is just a really unique species in that it has that tube. With a lot of texture and crispiness and then it also has the long leaf like blades that are delicate and a little more salty that lend itself really well to drawing. And so We have designed our products around this amazing kelp species so that we have products that use the bulb, like the pickles and the salsa and the hot sauce, and then the leafy fronds, which we dry and make into our firakake and other seasoning blends.
Ross Kenyon: Do you have anything that might be kombu-esque that one could make a dashi out of?
Matt Kern: Yeah, so the blade part of the kelp, That we dry, we have a couple products that we take that blade and turn it into a powder or a flake. And that can be just added right into a broth with bonito and either left into the broth or strained out like you would with a kombu for making dashi. And that will contribute that same really deep umami flavor into the dashi.
Ross Kenyon: Amazing. How many kelps did you have to try before full kelp was the clear winner?
Matt Kern: We are always experimenting and working along the farming industry to work with other species of kelp, including sugar kelp, a winged kelp called Alaria, and bull kelp, and there’s some other wild species of kelp that are prolific along the Alaskan coast that we have also experimented with. We landed on bull kelp for a number of reasons. And one was because we learned about making kelp salsa many, many years ago before we started the business from a friend. And bull kelp is one of the most abundant, if not the most abundant kelp species throughout our region, which is Southeast Alaska.
And so it seemed like a great species to work with for that reason. And we started making kelp salsa, like I said, well before we started a business. And it’s a very unique traditional food here in Alaska that at first glance, or if you hear someone say kelp salsa, you might think it’s kind of bizarre. And including myself, when I was first introduced to it, I was a little skeptical of what kelp salsa would taste like. But we ended up making a big batch with friends and the result was just so delicious that we realized that Next year, we’re going to have to make a lot more kelp salsa.
It became an annual tradition where we would just make bigger and bigger batches of kelp salsa because it was so delicious.
Ross Kenyon: How seasonal is bull kelp? Is it something that you have to time with the seasons or is it looser than that?
Matt Kern: Yeah. Interesting. Bull kelp grows like an annual plant. And so its entire life cycle happens over the course of a year. So in the spring, it’s just a little tiny spore on the seafloor that’s like almost microscopically small. And then come March and April, when it starts to grow into an adolescent kelp, maybe about six to 12 inches, it starts to form some leaves or the blades on the top of it. And then from April to June is when it really kicks up its growth and it can grow up to a foot a day or more in really healthy kelp beds.
So it’s just this amazingly fast growing and it’s best to harvest in the summer months. And so we go out and we harvest and work with other harvesters from about June through September and source all the kelp that we’ll need for the course of the year during those months and then in the fall, the kelp begins to break down and degrade. And by the time the winter rolls around, it’s almost entirely gone or detached from the kelp beds where it grows. And so it starts over every year.
Ross Kenyon: How does this fit into climate change and the broad vision of the company? I see a lot on the website about the concerns. I’m pretty sure they’re The regenerative lingo is what caught my attention at first. I knew you were coming about this from a mission-driven perspective. Maybe you could expand on that a little bit.
Matt Kern: Yeah, definitely. So we’re, I would say, a pretty unusual food business in a number of ways. But one of the biggest ways we see ourselves as different is that we do have a very strong mission around improving our ocean health. Really trying to be a tool for positive change in our communities and coastline. And climate change really ties into our motivation to starting this business and focusing on kelp from the outset. We, like I said, we’re making kelp salsa in our home kitchen with friends and finding that it tastes delicious.
And around that same time, hearing that kelp farming could be a growing industry in Alaska in the coming years, And so those elements combined for us to really get inspired that what’s lacking in this whole equation is we need to have people who want to buy kelp and eat it. And there has to be demand for this activity for it to scale and flourish across Alaska. And so we saw ourselves as we could play this role to develop a market for kelp that would And that’s kind of another topic to dive into.
I don’t know if we want to talk about how kelp functions as a carbon sink, but that ties into our mission and how we’re motivated on a day-to-day basis to market and produce our products.
Ross Kenyon: I think that’s a great place to take it. We’ve done a couple of shows before on sequestration in the ocean, but why don’t we assume that someone is starting fresh from this, doesn’t know a lot about kelp, how exactly might kelp interact with carbon removal?
Matt Kern: Yeah, and I’ll just put a disclaimer out here before we dive into the kelp science. And that is, I do have a background in science and was a biologist in the past, but I’m Not exactly involved in the research around this at the moment. So I’ll just speak to the current hypotheses and what people are thinking in terms of how kelp can play a role. But I don’t necessarily want anyone to take this to the bank.
Ross Kenyon: This is the most responsible podcasting disclaimer ever. You know, people just talk on podcasts, right? They don’t have anything. Often any credentials, any means of knowing anything, but okay, disclaimer noted, please help us.
Matt Kern: Sure. So kelp, we think, and a lot of scientists think, can play an extraordinary role in terms of pulling carbon out of the ocean and working as a sequestration tool. And what sets kelp apart from other technologies And so, like I said, kelp has a life cycle for many species of about a year. And so, a kelp grows from a tiny spore that’s microscopic to, at some point, Species up to 100 foot long organism that weighs many kilograms in just one short year. And it’s able to incorporate carbon from the ocean into its structure by being really successful at photosynthesis and having a really fast growing cell structure.
And whereas a forest being planted for sequestration purposes, you know, takes decades to reach maturity, a kelp farm or plot can reach maturity in a single year. And then that kelp can be taken out of the ocean or sequestered in a number of ways and then replanted the following year and done successively. That’s a really exciting attribute around kelp as a tool for climate sequestration, just the speed that it works at. And then another really important factor is a lot of the other sequestration activities are going to compete with land-based activities like food, where we have a lot of competition for space.
And so in the ocean, we have a lot of room for To grow kelp and pull carbon out of the environment. And also kind of the last really big factor here is that kelp doesn’t require any inputs in terms of fertilizer or fresh water and land. So it’s really got a lot of advantages and seems like it’s a really exciting tool in the sequestration realm.
Ross Kenyon: It certainly is. It always gets us interested. I mean, the company is called Nori. We’ve been fascinated with how a future Ocean CDR world might look and recognizing it’s important is pretty fundamental to Nori as a company. I’ve seen really cool ideas about being able to sync Kelp at maturity down to the depths by which it is basically impossible or takes many hundreds or thousands of years for the carbon to actually get back up to the surface or even be off-gassed into the atmosphere. I imagine that’s one of the possibilities.
Surely there are probably others too.
Matt Kern: Yeah. So that is definitely being talked about a lot as a long-term sequestration strategy is that Kelp grows so fast, you can create an immense biomass in a short period of time and then potentially sink it into the depths for long-term storage. And that is a strategy that could become really useful and important. And we are focusing on a different type of strategy in that equation. And so our emphasis at Barnacle is... to use food and use a business as a way to drive that process forward. However, the difference there is that our kelp that we’re working to source and grow the demand for wouldn’t be sunk, but rather it would replace more carbon intensive foods that we’re currently eating and be not a permanent elimination from the carbon cycle, but be a much slower Back release into the atmosphere by entering the food chain and working through the carbon cycle that way.
And so kelp, because it is so regenerative and easy to grow, if we are using about half kelp in most of our products, that potentially is replacing kelp. Other more carbon intensive crops and activities in products like salsa, for example, we’re not using onions and tomatoes as intensively because we have half of our product being made from kelp. So it is part of the replacement equation where you’re increasing regenerative foods in your diet and decreasing more carbon intensive foods.
Ross Kenyon: This is gonna take it back to the earlier discussion that was more culinary and orientation, Some of your products are quite in your face. Hey, you’re eating kelp now. Enjoy the kelp that we are serving you. And the other products, it’s almost mixed in. I sort of think about it as like meat substitutes. To what degree are they supposed to exactly mimic the meat experience? Should your lab-grown or plant-based meat bleed or have the appearance of bleeding? Are you okay with it basically being a soybean patty? And we all know that’s what it is.
It seems like you’ve gone for both strategies. Is this a correct read?
Matt Kern: Yeah. And we’ve designed products, like you said, to both introduce people to kelp in a more direct form. Like our pickles are just a ring of kelp in a brine. So you really get a chance to see the kelp and experience it. And then our other products, like you said, are more of A background ingredient in terms of in your face or flavor. And in part that’s because kelp is a really subtle umami or savory enhancement in a lot of foods. Like you’ll find in a dashi, for example, doesn’t taste really strong of kelp, but the kelp elements just add to deliciousness and complexity.
So we’re really trying to make kelp foods accessible to everyday eaters who maybe don’t enjoy the flavor of nori or other traditional seaweed products on the market right now. And so really our hot sauce, I think, is a great kind of mixture of those two concepts of both having a little subtle kelp briney Umami flavor, but also being extremely palatable and enjoyable to a wide variety of tastes. And that’s really what we’ve found is hot sauce is a great vehicle for this goal because people put hot sauce, like you said, it was the first product gone in your barnacle collection.
Um, it’s something you use every day and it adds flavor and accent to just about any dish you’re eating and We’ve really struck a nice balance on our hot sauces in particular to both allow people to get a sense for how the kelp is influencing the flavor, but also to be very versatile and useful on any food you’re eating.
Ross Kenyon: I see the value in all of this. If you were focused, we have a previous guest on named Brian von Hertzen. His work on marine permaculture has always been really fascinating. Protecting coral reefs, having multiple value streams with oysters or other shellfish that are incorporated, having this be a regenerative farm system that is Very much with an eye towards how can this be monetized also with carbon markets as that becomes a thing that’s more mainstream with regard to the oceans. And I also see the value of what you do as a communicator, as an educator, either trying to get the adventurous people on board saying, hey, like you should try this thing because it’s really cool and it’s out there or to the people who are a little bit more squeamish being like, uh, This is a hot sauce that’s so good that it’ll persuade you without you having to think about it.
I think communications projects or education projects like that in general sometimes don’t get enough love. But I think that kind of teaching and that kind of cultural shift is really key for Reversing Climate Change and solving many problems. And I imagine you probably feel at least somewhat similar.
Matt Kern: Definitely. Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re walking that fine line every day in our business operations. Is that balance between education around how this flavor and food source can be a tool to fight climate change, but also you should try this hot sauce just because it tastes really, really good. And we don’t necessarily need to lead with our climate foot in all avenues or approaches. And often we lead more with the flavor and Just the quality of our products and let the discovery happen after people fall in love with the products to find out, oh, this actually has kelp in it.
And whoa, kelp can help fight climate change. So we’re really experimenting and always trying to work all those different angles to introduce consumers to what we’re doing. And one of the ways that our business is so enjoyable is that food is just a really fun way to connect with people and to share the story. And I think when people have a way to splash some delicious hot sauce on their meals and send a bottle to their friend across the country, that’s a really fun way to engage with this challenge of climate change.
Ross Kenyon: I think that’s a great point. And it also made me think about how terrible political comedy is when it’s not coming from a place of funny first. Like if it’s not funny, it just doesn’t work. If the food doesn’t taste good, it doesn’t matter how good it is for the climate because your company is going to fail and no one’s going to eat this thing and learn anything. And worse, if it tastes bad, they might actively now not want to try a competitor’s product. Yeah. Yeah. And it seems like you have gone pretty hard into the hot sauce.
I saw a bunch of various aged versions of it too. So it seems like is hot sauce the area that you’re expanding into?
Matt Kern: Yeah, we have had really incredible momentum on the hot sauce. In particular, we have a lot of interest in all of our products. So we’re still making all of them because they each have their own audience and Diehard folks, but the hot sauce seems to be where we introduce the most new people to our products. And there’s a lot of possible reasons behind that. Just in general, hot sauce is a really popular food condiment right now. I think it’s really trending to enjoy spicy foods. Like you said, you have a spice tooth right now.
I think that’s a trend that we’re seeing across... A lot of different people really enjoy adding some extra heat or flavor to their meals. And also hot sauce is a kind of unique food that people are willing to try something a little different. It’s kind of an adventurous palate food. And so, yeah, we’re definitely leaning into the hot sauce front and coming out with some more and What’s really exciting about our hot sauces is that they are similar priced to other hot sauces on the shelves. And so we’re able to get this product into grocery store shelves and are starting to see some really good traction in the continental United States in grocery markets.
Ross Kenyon: Wow, that’s great. I didn’t realize it seemed like e-commerce was such a huge focus for you that I... Sort of didn’t imagine. Actually, I don’t know that much about the end user product world of agriculture. Once it hits a shelf and it’s not just bought online, I feel like my knowledge is very limited. How do you get onto shelves?
Matt Kern: Yeah, that’s a great question and something that we knew very little about when we started the business, but have become much more versed in that as we’ve grown and started this endeavor. And so from the start, we’ve really had this goal of creating accessible products in order to hit that scale where we’re supporting kelp farming in Alaska and hitting a scale where we can actually buy enough kelp to support a number of kelp farmers. And so we knew to do that, we would need pricing and products that could be distributed at volume.
And so from day one or even before day one, when we were just sketching business plans, we always had this goal of getting our products into distribution and working with the grocery setting. And what we learned in the initial days of our efforts was that it’s extremely competitive to get shelf space. And often once you get shelf space in grocery stores, it’s even then more of an expense than a Profit to keep yourself on the shelf because you need to support sales and introduce customers to your products. So it’s quite a journey to become a food manufacturing business and successfully convince customers to pick your product out on the shelf.
So now we’ve been at it for five years and had a lot of trials and challenges. And what we’re learning is that packaging is super important. And then flavor is super important, but a consumer won’t be able to tell what the flavor is of your product until they take the plunge and pull it off the shelf and taste it. And so pricing is really important. And for us, we do have a really strong social media following. We have kind of a national audience that we share our story with. And a lot of people are intrigued by our use of kelp.
Our support of this young industry. And so that’s helped us secure shelf space in now quite a few grocery chains and stores around the country. That’s helping us meet that goal of increasing our demand and market.
Ross Kenyon: Very interesting. I’m trying to think about how I decide to get something new. Sometimes I use just the grocery store as a proxy. I think if it’s good enough to satisfy a Whole Foods buyer... Like there’s probably a decent chance it’s okay. I probably wouldn’t feel the same way about Safeway though. What’s in my soul? How do I choose to buy something?
Matt Kern: Yeah, it’s something we’re always asking ourselves and yeah, a constant need for us as a business to be an attractive product and drive awareness. And so, yeah, I’d say we’re a very unusual business and in a number of ways, but Yeah, we’re basically trying to attract people to a new commodity or a new category of food that there was no existing demand for kelp salsa or kelp hot sauce when we got started. And so I think that’s just a really unique position to be in where you’re serving a brand new product out into the world.
Ross Kenyon: Cool, but it either means you’re ahead of the curve or you’re wrong, I think. But I think... I think you’re in a good spot, though. Well, Matt, if someone wanted to try out Barnacle Foods, how should they go about it?
Matt Kern: Yeah. So first place to check would be to go to our website, www. barnaclefoods.com. And you’re welcome to browse around, check out our products on the website. We also have a store locator on the website so you can see if there’s any retail partners in the nearby vicinity of where you live. And as a special opportunity for folks out there listening, we’d be happy to offer a 20% discount off of an order through our website. And you can just enter the code NORI at checkout and you’ll get that discount.
And if you’re interested in the pickles, we only sell those through our website and a lot of the smaller batch products like barrel aged hot sauce and some seasoning blends that are just available through the website. So definitely check it out and we’d be excited to send some delicious kelp foods your way.
Ross Kenyon: Great. Sounds good. I’ll put that in the show notes too at the top so you can see it if you’re interested. Also, I’m looking at the store locator. Wow, you guys are everywhere, especially in Seattle. I didn’t realize how omnipresent all your products are. So good for you guys. You’re clearly doing something right.
Matt Kern: Yeah, we’re getting out there. So yeah, there’s a chance there’ll be a store nearby where you live. So yeah, check that store locator tab.
Ross Kenyon: Well, thanks so much for being on the show, Matt.
Matt Kern: Yeah, thanks for having me, Ross. It was really great chatting and we’re honored to be featured in this topic and on your show.
Ross Kenyon: Well, thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today’s show. Definitely check out Barnacle Foods. Share this episode with a friend. If you give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it always helps us a lot to get this content to new ears. And thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for listening. If you could please subscribe and give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify, that’d be much appreciated. It helps us get our content out to more people.
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