Are you missing the experience of eating out at a restaurant? Or maybe you’re itching to travel and revisit the food traditions of the places you love? What if you could recreate these experiences at home, using simple recipes to embark on a culinary journey around the world?
Renee Erickson is the James Beard Award-winning chef behind several popular Seattle restaurants including The Walrus and the Carpenter, The Whale Wins, and Bateau. She is also the author of the critically-acclaimed cookbook A Boat, a Whale & a Walrus: Menus and Stories. On this episode of Reversing Climate Change, Renee joins Ross and Radhika to discuss her latest release, Getaway: Food and Drink to Transport You, sharing what inspired her to design a cookbook around her favorite places.
Renee weighs in on why eating locally and seasonally is not just better for the climate but better for us, explaining her decisions-making around what fish to buy for her restaurants and how to avoid wasting beef. Listen in for Renee’s insight on making good food more accessible and get her top recommendations on places to eat out in Seattle as the world reopens post-pandemic!
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Resources
Getaway: Food & Drink to Transport You by Renee Erickson
A Boat, a Whale & a Walrus: Menus and Stories by Renee Erickson
Six Seasons: A New Way with Vegetables by Joshua McFadden
‘Three Seattle Chefs on the Challenges of Opening a Restaurant in 2020’ in Crosscut
Full Transcript
Alexsandra Guerra: You’re listening to the Reversing Climate Change podcast by the team at Nori, the carbon removal marketplace. This is a show about the innovators and entrepreneurs developing solutions to climate change.
Ross Kenyon: Hello and welcome to the Reversing Climate Change podcast. I’m Ross Kenyon, I’m the creative editor at Nori, the carbon removal marketplace. Today I have with me co-hosting Radhika Moolgavkar. Radhika, you are the head of methodology at Nori. Welcome to the show.
Radhika Moolgavkar: Thank you, thanks. I’m happy to be here.
Ross Kenyon: I know you’re extra happy too, because you’ve been eating our guest’s food for a very long time, and I for a less amount of time, but still, you know, a Seattle favorite. [unclear] Chef Renee Erickson, James Beard Award winner, chef and co-owner of Sea Creatures restaurants, and author of her latest cookbook, Getaway. Welcome to the show, Renee.
Renee Erickson: Thank you. Happy to be here.
Radhika Moolgavkar: I was telling Ross before the show got started that you’re one of, like, my seminal food memory moments in Seattle. My husband and I went on one of our earliest dates at the original Boat Street Cafe, and we had the chicken you mention in this cookbook, and I still remember it. And it was right around the corner from, like, Northlake Tavern, and such good memories. And I am so excited to meet you, and he’s very jealous that he doesn’t get to be [unclear] the recipe for the chicken now. So that’s good, right?
Renee Erickson: Yeah, that’s great.
Radhika Moolgavkar: Though we can’t recreate it the way you do, but it’s a real treat to meet you. So thanks for being on the show.
Renee Erickson: Of course, happy to be here.
Ross Kenyon: Renee, what inspired you to write this particular cookbook, and right now? I imagine this took you longer than COVID, but it’s so focused on travel and your favorite places that it probably hit that wanderlust that everyone’s been missing.
Renee Erickson: [unclear] Oh man, it’s been three years in the making. The last year was all kind of technical stuff and editing. And so, now, the intention of the book originally was much smaller. It was supposed to be a little book. That’s what my agent told me when I was, like, proposing it to her. She’s like, oh yeah, it’ll be fine, it won’t be a big deal, it’ll be easy. And I, you know, I should have known better. But it is a book that started from the idea of an aperitivo, or an apéro hour, and trying to, like, have foods that are, you know, easy to put together, stuff that you can buy, some things in your pantry, a lot of, like, things that you share with friends. And then it grew a lot.
And so when I started thinking about that time of day in regards to food and what I loved about it, it made me start to think about how I started in food, which wasn’t really in food. It was — I was an art student at the University of Washington and ended up living in Rome at the Palazzo Pio, going to school at Palazzo Pio, and I lived about a ten-minute walk away. And so I’d walk every day through Rome to this fabulous place near Campo de’ Fiori. And was just, you know, I was 20, I think, and never had understood that food was something that was not only for nourishment, but, like, total pleasure, and, like, the entire day was planned around it. And that was, you know, not, at very least, my upbringing, you know? Like, we ate really well, we had a garden, you know, like, there was obviously, like, celebrations and things, but it wasn’t quite as compulsive as as Italy, at least in Rome, was. And so I thought it was fantastic and was very curious, and spent a lot of time in shops trying to understand all the different things that I didn’t know about.
And then fast forward, and kind of looking through my life as a cook, it became really clear to me that those kind of experiences have really driven the way I think about food, and how I’ve learned about food in travel. And as being someone who was, you know, really fortunate to get to go to school in Rome, and then having a restaurant at a really young age, gave me kind of a weird opportunity to, like, not have a lot of things. I mean, I had a business, but I also didn’t know the rules of owning a business. So I would close for two weeks and go to France and try to, like, learn something. It was just — I was young and stupid, and I just loved food. And so, all of a sudden, you know, I’ve got, you know, many places over the years that have become really important to me, and I have family friends now that, you know, people that are friends that I feel like are my family in these places.
And that became kind of the idea around the book, where it was this, like, extension of my first book, in that the first book was really focused on the people here in Seattle that have been really important to me as a chef, and this kind of was the, like, next ring out of all these places that have, you know, taught me so much. So, yeah, it was supposed to be small. It’s not small. It’s a giant book. It’s actually funny, I was signing my first book today. It makes me so happy, because I love it so much, you know, especially having spent so much time on Getaway. Now to, like, go back and look at it and feel like — I look at that, you know, like, it has the same kind of, like — I mean, it’s me, which is what feels really nice, actually, to have it, like, bound up in a thing where people can, like, read it and learn from it and, you know, experience some part of it. I think cookbooks have always been my favorite way — if I can get on a plane, like, it’s what I do, is read cookbooks and read about people’s lives, because I’m just so fascinated by it. That’s a very long answer, sorry.
Radhika Moolgavkar: It’s such a beautiful cookbook, both Ross and I commented on it. You can kind of see your artistic background in it. I love the blue edges of the pages. Yeah, they’re fantastic. What a nice detail. And I will say, you did a great job, because one of my questions was, like, this whole book is about these wonderful food memories you have of friends and family. It comes through so wonderfully in the book. And I was curious about what’s your earliest memory of food and place? I saw the clamming picture with your parents and I thought maybe that’s what it was. But curious.
Renee Erickson: It’s, you know, I would say there’s two that are the most vivid. As a kid, is being in a garden. So we had about two acres, and my dad was a landscaper, so most of that was, like, trees that he was growing and things like that, but we always had a small garden. And I remember one of my chores was to weed the garden, and I think it was probably short-sighted on my mom’s part to have me do that, because I would sit and eat, you know, everything. I would eat my way down the strawberry patch, or I’d eat, you know, all the peas or something. So there’s that, which, you know, that kind of eating is, like, unbelievable, to be able to have something just pulled out of a garden.
And then, you know, very similarly, but from the water, having the time that we would spend up at the Tulalip Reservation. We had these amazing experiences with being on the water and, like, learning how to fish and catching crab. And, you know, there was — well, I don’t even know if this man’s alive anymore, but this guy would come and honk his horn on his boat, and he would pull up on the beach, and he had gone shrimping, and he would have a little, like, steamer on his boat, and he would steam all these shrimp. And then they’d be sold to us warm, in paper bags, and made us sit on this, you know, the log basically, and eat shrimp and throw the shells back in the water, and, like, that kind of stuff. Like, I know it exists, but not in my world anymore, at least not in the modern world of Seattle. Like, that’s not even probably legal. So I’m taking it you can’t shrimp whenever you want anymore, which is good, speaking of what we’re talking about today.
But yeah, so it’s all, like, that kind of, like, really close to the source food, that I think is such a, you know, gosh, such a huge problem in our world with food. So, like, trying to, you know, recreate or have people have access to something that’s, like, full of life still, is such a luxury and such a beautiful thing to get to experience, I think, more and more. I wish it was — you know, I mean, it’s one of the things I love about restaurants, is trying to have relationships with farmers so that we get things, you know, as immediate as we can, from being pulled out of the ground, or the, you know, oyster farm or whatever.
Ross Kenyon: So I think — I originally pulled this insight from David Chang. He has some line about how, like, New York haute cuisine is very much focused on transforming ingredients because the quality of ingredients is lesser. I don’t know if this is still there, this is 20 years out of date, I don’t know. But the West Coast is famous for Alice Waters, right? It’s a carrot on a plate, that’s what it is. Your food strikes me — I know this word is overused with cooking. Not “haunting” — whenever someone describes the flavor as “haunting,” I die a little inside. [unclear] But, like, your food does seem rustic and ingredient-forward. I wish I had better vocabulary than that, but is that halfway fair?
Renee Erickson: Yeah, no, it’s true. I mean, I think there’s, like, lanes of food, I think, that, you know, chefs in particular get to choose to live in, and mine is: try to get out of the way of whatever it is and try to buy the best version of it. And not that it needs to be expensive, but that it should be, like, you know, picked at the right time and seasonal. And yeah, I mean, I’m not a trained chef either, and so my, like, love of food and cooking came from eating, more so than, like, thinking about creating something in that way. You know, I could watch a grandma anywhere in the world cook all day long and I’d be so thrilled, you know, far more interesting than Food Network shows or, you know, like, anything, any cool — you know, what do you call it, I don’t even know what they’re called, tools, things that you make stuff look fancier with. I don’t know, I’m way more interested in that than trying to recreate something that’s already pretty perfect. I mean, I want to cook it sometimes.
Ross Kenyon: But yeah, it makes it more accessible to people like Radhika and I, who — I’m enthusiastic. I don’t know how skilled I am, but I am enthusiastic. I think if you had something that involved tweezers, or, like, a little bit more cheffy, I think I would die in the making of these.
Renee Erickson: What did you cook out of it, Radhika, do you know?
Radhika Moolgavkar: Oh my gosh. Well, we cooked a ton of the toasts, so I’m a big fan of the toasts. It appears that [unclear] might be too. Renee, I mean, I just did the buckwheat flour crepes with leeks on Monday. What an amazing flour flavor combination that never occurred to me. We did almost the whole Roman section. We did Baja. Yeah, so we did a ton of it. Our kids tend towards the Baja flavors more, so that was probably the most successful family-wise, but those crepes yesterday, or Monday, were awesome.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, I mean, like, that’s a really good contrast, Normandy, Baja, huh? You know, like, I think oftentimes that’s been the curious question for everyone, is like, how did those two end up together? And for me, I think the ingredient part of a place, you know, like when you travel somewhere and there’s something so familiar, or, and also so not familiar, and then to see how they’ve created things, and to be, you know, things have become tradition clearly, especially in that, and, you know, with buckwheat in Normandy. So I don’t know, I just love it, like, it’s the best part, you know, it’s the best part of travel to me, is learning those sort of things that become really normal in a place that are totally new to me. So, yeah, buckwheat crepes with, you know, cheeses and hams and apples, or whatever you put in, it is so traditional, and, you know, nothing I would have grown up with, you know, so even though we have all those things here.
Radhika Moolgavkar: So yeah, that’s what I actually love the most about that crepe recipe. For me, it was a combination of the Cosmic Crisp apple, and the — but, you know, so a little Washington thrown in with the little France.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, I love that. That’s fun. Yeah, I like combining traditions in interesting ways. But anyway, Ross, what did you cook? We didn’t hear your list.
Ross Kenyon: I cooked a bunch too. I mean, the crostini was a big hit. I liked those, especially the ricotta and roasted cherry tomato crostini with too much olive oil. I liked — I also, like, many of these required strange ingredients that I had never heard of, like piparra peppers. Is out there — it’s like, where the hell do I find piparra peppers? Went to a bunch of stores, and I sounded cool, but I didn’t find them. I had to order online.
Renee Erickson: We’ve been buying those for a long time. A friend of mine is from Spain and he imported all of these ingredients, and so we were snacking on those many years ago, even at the early Boat Street days. Which is — so, they’re fun too, because they’re not hot, you know, they’re just, like, super green and, you know, intense flavor and vegetal, not spicy.
Ross Kenyon: So yeah, it was a good use of brininess and acid. Another case of that too was, I made these slow-braised shallots with cider, and using the cider in that way. Did you make those, Radhika?
Radhika Moolgavkar: I did not get around to making those. I mean, as Renee pointed out, it’s a very big cookbook. So, it’s on my list, don’t you worry. I love shallots, so I’m excited to make those.
Ross Kenyon: [unclear] all the shallots at the store when I went, because it [called for] 13 pounds of shallots. Like, yeah, I guess. What she said — that’s the mantra in the house right now. “Renee says we do,” so we don’t mess with your words.
Renee Erickson: [unclear] there are ways that you can — don’t feel obliged to follow verbatim, they’re intended as guides more than anything. So you kind of got to have two shallots.
Ross Kenyon: Okay, I’ll keep that in mind for next time. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. So listeners might be puzzled, because we haven’t brought up climate change quite yet, and maybe they can discern some links to this from how we’re talking about — this seems like there’s some natural links here, to try to eat locally, trying to eat seasonally. Is that still a paradigm that people concerned with the environment and its links with food should care about? Is that a good way to think about it? Is that too big of a question for you?
Renee Erickson: It’s absolutely something I think more people should be thinking about. I still don’t think it’s that — I mean, I’ve been in many grocery stores all over America, and it’s kind of frightening. It’s just like, whatever, all the time, no matter what, we have it. And, you know, like, our idea around food is so — I don’t know, it’s just that, it’s just like, you want to have it, okay, I’m going to go get it, because I can, you know. I don’t eat tomatoes until — unless they’re canned tomatoes that I canned — until July, like, July in Washington, because they’re terrible for a while and they taste like crap, they’re expensive, and I don’t need them, you know, because they’re not good. And so I think people don’t — I wish people would kind of consider that more when they’re thinking about food and what is actually good versus what they just assume is good because it’s available.
Ross Kenyon: An example of that that you’ve institutionalized is how Bateau treats beef.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, I mean, I would say that, although I think we’ve done a pretty good job of being mindful, or at least considering a lot of that, I think, you know, that is still something that I’m wrestling with. I know that we’re buying a whole cow, usually — we’re always utilizing everything, which is really hard to do. It takes a ton of effort and funding and creativity around cooking. And then it also takes a lot of willing customers to experiment on things that aren’t necessarily what — maybe they don’t want to have when they go out for a steak. But, you know, the reality of how food used to be, and I think how I wish it was, because we’re really wasteful in wanting, you know, like, the prime cut and not having to think about, like, why we eat too much meat, you know.
Like, there’s so many, like, issues around that, I think, in regards to, like, you know, is it okay to be — if, like, that’s a huge conversation now, obviously, with all the pollution that causes, and then, you know, how would we get away from that? And so, you know, I struggle with that. Sometimes I’m just like, well, maybe we shouldn’t do it at all. I’m hopeful that, you know, there’s some place in the world that we can get to where responsibly purchasing, you know, a whole animal [unclear] by a farmer who is, you know, farming it responsibly without creating a lot of carbon emissions — that would be great. I mean, I don’t want to give it up, but, you know, we also have — we’re constantly, like, kind of looking at what we’re doing and how we can be better. I think we’re not really — you don’t feel satisfied, I guess is what I’m saying, with it, the way the way restaurants function and the way we function within them, too. I think, you know, we have a lot of learning and effort to be made still. So I don’t know, it’s a lot to unpack, for sure.
You’re not going to go vegan, like Daniel Humm? I am grateful that he’s doing that. I think it’s pretty bold. I mean, it’s very bold. I think it helps to be a restaurant that has a history of more — I don’t know if “molecular” is the right word, but, like, kind of farther away from, like, the whole piece of fish or whatever, you know, like, it’s more kind of like food that’s been evolved more before it hits the plate. But yeah, I mean, it’s all part of, I think, that conversation that we all have to be willing to talk about. You know, we can’t just, like, keep our head in the sand and think that, like, well, it’s just my one restaurant, how big of an impact is it? It’s a lot, like, you know — my doing it, we’re basically saying it’s okay for one.
And so, I don’t know, like, I’m definitely — like, I’m talking about never buying salmon again, you know, with my chefs. Like, we don’t buy any king salmon, and that’s good. I don’t know that it makes any difference, but I’m like, Bristol Bay — where, I think it’s okay if it’s Bristol Bay. But, you know, so we don’t buy — so, you know, like, when you think of buying local, like, we would want to buy fish from Washington, which — we don’t buy any salmon from Washington right now. We have in the past. There’s, like, right now, all there is is the spring Chinook, which I won’t buy, because that’s, like — if there is a big fish that the orca whales will survive on, it’s that one, which isn’t, you know, those runs are terrible. If you read, like, the Washington fish and game page, like, everything is bad on the salmon runs.
And so, so yeah. So we were trying, you know, like Bristol Bay, we’re trying to support. We buy a lot of frozen fish and use that, because I think it’s a way to support fisheries, but, you know, in a way that, like, allows the fish to actually be better than a lot of the fish that people are buying, which is unfortunate. I think people will think that fresh salmon’s better, but it’s not always. I think often it’s not. I mean, even in Seattle, like, the fish that gets in Seattle is still sometimes two weeks old. So, you know, if it’s sitting at the bottom of a tender, they wait to fill it up with fish, you know, it’s iced, but it’s still, you know, sitting there. And eventually it makes it to the cannery, and then it gets put on a box and flown to SeaTac or whatever, and then eventually in a warehouse, and then eventually in my restaurant.
And we just bought some Copper River sockeye from — we buy from Drifters, which is a husband and wife team that fish the river there. And then we’ll buy stuff from Bristol. But yeah, I mean, it’s just — it’s never ending. Like, I feel like there’s — you know, it feels like whack-a-mole, very — you know, you’re like, okay, we’re going to not do this now, and then all of a sudden you’re like, well, sh*t, now I’m buying this. Like, is that okay, you know? So, no, no, I mean, I think the hard part as a consumer is, no one has time, really, to, like, spend unpacking, like, the grocery store of items, you know. You hope that people are doing a good job, but they’re not. There’s no real way to know what’s good, you know, unless you do the research, which is really exhausting.
Ross Kenyon: So, hey, your previous cookbook — those are ordered in terms of seasons, right? A Boat, a Whale and a Walrus. And I also read Six Seasons recently, I cook out of that one a fair amount too. And I find that to be — it’s easy to be environmentally friendly. You’re not shipping stuff across the ocean when it’s delicious and something that is fresh picked and actually not traveling super far. It isn’t a sacrifice. In fact, it’s often better.
Renee Erickson: Yeah. [unclear] I think the challenge is that — I think people have gotten to a place where food is supposed to be cheap, and, you know, it really isn’t, for it to be grown well and the people that are growing it are living lives that are healthy, and, you know, they can feed their family and go to the doctor, go on vacation, God forbid, you know, do all the things that we all want to do. Most of the food in the world isn’t that. It isn’t farmed by people that are respected and given lives that are healthy and happy.
So I think until we really recognize that and become a culture that isn’t okay with that, then I think it’s going to be — you know, it becomes like a luxury thing, and it shouldn’t be. You know, we should be able to have good food that’s nutritious and locally grown. And, I mean, you know, like, I think we should be able to have, like, people making enough money so that they can buy the foods that are from that place, you know, whether it’s the farmers market or whatever, rather than having to buy [unclear] market. That part of it really makes me the most mad, that our government and our society has kind of perpetuated the idea of cheap food, and that it’s okay to have food over nutritious, you know, food that’s local.
Ross Kenyon: You know, you’re, like, a substantial food empire in Seattle. Is there any place that has a sort of working-class availability? Is it just impossible to do as an individual or as an entrepreneur? Is this something that needs to happen at a policy level? Is it impossible for you, even if you wanted to?
Renee Erickson: To make, like, less expensive food? Is that what you’re asking?
Ross Kenyon: Yeah, or have, like, an old, like, canteen kind of approach or something.
Renee Erickson: I think it’s two things, right? I don’t know that, like, fine dining or restaurants — I don’t think that’s our job, really. I think it’s more that, like, we need to have — I don’t think that the only good food should be expensive food, you know? And so — but I think there are places that are doing, like — there’s an organization in Seattle called Green Plate Special that’s, like — [unclear] it’s, you know, not two acres, but it’s a farm that teaches kids how to raise vegetables and cook with them, and they sell their food, which I love. And I think we just need people, you know.
It’s not unlike, like, the schoolyard project, where there’s food that can be grown, it’s nutritious and good and fresh and seasonal, that doesn’t have to be crazy expensive. I think I’m at the point where I’m like, I’m sure I could do that, I just don’t know that I have the bandwidth to start a canteen. But I think we do a lot of other, like, fundraising things and that sort of stuff that does promote that sort of thing, like, including a Green Plate Special. But yeah, I don’t know, it’s a great idea. And, you know, that’s not true, I think that, you know, like Mel at Musang here in Seattle, she’s been doing a lot, like the community kitchen stuff during the pandemic, that has been feeding her community, which is awesome. No, yeah, I mean, it’s all part of, like, trying to come to a place where, like, we — if we have to, like, flip everything upside down and try to look at food. Anyway.
Ross Kenyon: [unclear] Am I putting you too much on the spot?
Renee Erickson: It’s just the project, mostly. I’m so tired. The book project was great, but then to have it come out while we’re trying to, like, dig out of a pandemic has been a bit challenging. But it’s also really fun to think about travel and people that I haven’t seen for a long time.
Radhika Moolgavkar: So yeah, I was going to ask you, what’s the first place you’re going to visit now that the world is reopening?
Renee Erickson: Right. We’re going to Baja, actually, in a few weeks, and my friends Danno and Carla, who are featured in the book — we’re going to do a dinner down there. So we’re going to — he’s been, you know — really, Baja, I mean, that part of Baja is pretty undeveloped, which I love. It’s, you know, surf towns and farms, really, which is pretty spectacular. And so we’re going to do a dinner for 30 people at his surf shack on the beach.
Ross Kenyon: So, I mean, I want to know how I get on that invitation list. Like, can you make 31?
Renee Erickson: There are seats available still, so it’s June 14th. Yeah, Monday, June 14th. You just have to get to Cerritos Beach in Baja and we’ll feed you. Yeah, we’re seeing — his uncle harvests sea snails, so we’re going to make some sea snails, and then blood clams are a big deal down there, so that’s the big plan. There’s a recipe in the book, so we’re going to do those with this [unclear] also.
I mean, I think what’s fun is, I send [unclear] to Danno all the time, when, like, what about this? And so lately it’s been grilled watermelon with grilled big prawns from Baja, with, like, serrano chilies. And going back and forth, and I’m going to get there, and the day before we’ll basically go to the farm and see what’s available and harvest tomatoes, hopefully, is what I’m dreaming of, because it’s not a bad time to eat tomatoes in Mexico. And then the fishermen will bring what they have, so I love that. I don’t want to over-plan, because then I’m going to miss out on something that just happens to show up.
Which I think is — that would be nice if that was more how we, you know, lived our lives a little bit. I know, it’s, like, decadent to think of it that way, but that was, I think, originally what made it so inspiring about being in Rome, was the idea that, you know, people walk by, and if they didn’t have artichokes, they would buy fennel, you know, whatever was there, versus, like, forcing this situation to happen that then requires someone to be farming it out of season, and making it so that whenever your artichoke [unclear] happens, you get them.
Radhika Moolgavkar: I mean, the way you described it sounds absolutely dreamy. I do wish we could have a life like that.
Renee Erickson: I don’t know how you unwind the rest of life, right? It’s just so complex. But, you know, and it feels like — I feel like it definitely got worse this year, you know? It didn’t get easier at all, I don’t know. I mean, I think it might be that, you know, I think that the to-go food situation, back to kind of having things that are maybe less [unclear], is a way to do that, because it doesn’t require the infrastructure of staff, you know, like service staff and, you know, all of that. But yeah, I don’t know. Meal kits, I like that too. But I’m watching [unclear] across the street. Is that something you’ve ever been loving? Yeah, no, no. I wish. I wish I knew the answer.
I know it — it might not be possible, but I do hope for that, where people can just work less, for God’s sakes, too, you know, where, like, food and being with people doesn’t have to just be Sunday, you know? It’s so, so important. I think we all just get kind of spun out, and especially now with email. I was like — well, it’s a good example, like my book — the first book came out before Instagram, at least before I was on Instagram. Turns out, it was so much easier to launch a book without Instagram. Just, like, one last thing to do — although, like, you have all these great connections because of it. But, oh my God, like, what do I have to do on Instagram, you know, blah, blah, blah. I start to feel like a robot. Don’t like it, like, milk-it thing.
Ross Kenyon: Now that the pandemic is at least more manageable with people getting vaccinated, I want glamour. I want to go out and dress up. Like, Canlis, of course, in Seattle, is like the meal kits and all of their, like, pickleball and stuff. Like, this is pretty fun. I like that y’all are rolling with the punches so hard. But also, I don’t want anything like that now. I want a restaurant to be a restaurant again. I want to come into the Walrus and the Carpenter to eat oysters at happy hour, and I don’t want you to give me oysters to go or something. I feel like that’s not — that’s what I’m here for.
Renee Erickson: I mean, that makes me happy, because I think, you know, restaurants in the last ten years have become such a huge part of our lives, you know, which was never — certainly even 25 years ago it wasn’t the case, or even 15, really. Like, it’s exploded, and that people are, at least in Seattle, much more social in that way, which I really love. I think it’s become such an important part of people’s, you know, week. But yeah, I think I’m excited about that. It’s going to be an interesting summer to see how people behave and how wild everyone gets, and yeah, it’ll be — I’m excited. It’s a little crazy.
Radhika Moolgavkar: But I’ve got to echo exactly what Ross was saying. I cannot wait. And the thing is, we’ve tried — last week, to go, we’re like, we’re just going to be spur of the moment and try to get reservations, and there was nothing available at all.
Renee Erickson: Now, well, we have half the tables, and everyone in the entire city wants to eat out every night now. It’s just great. So my tip is: eat early or eat late. That’s the Seattle, like, [unclear] everyone jumps — I have a friend who wants to name a restaurant “7:00 Big Red Wine,” which I think is hysterical, but so true. Like, everyone wants to eat at 7:00, then most people want red wine. But yeah, so if you want to — I will eat at 5:30 and drink some white wine just to get in.
Radhika Moolgavkar: Yeah, but because that was a — [unclear] somebody told me about Bateau: go in early, then you get your choice of anything you want. And so we have. Yeah.
Renee Erickson: [unclear] we still are socially distanced, and so we have half the tables, and, right, fifty percent inside, or — I think, yeah, we’re at 50%. So hopefully we’ll see what happens in the next month, if that disappears, which feels like so exciting and so bizarre to imagine, like, a room full of people. I mean, I can’t wait. Like, it’s one thing I miss the most, is sitting at a bar and staring at a bartender, and, you know, the noise of a restaurant, and, yeah, snooping, and, you know, eavesdropping on what other people are doing and eating, and, you know, like, just being around people you don’t know. And yeah, I miss that a lot.
Ross Kenyon: The Harvest Vine bar was one of the best spots in Seattle, right? Like, watching them cook, talking with them, and then listening to the conversations around. It’s amazing.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, it’s so — so it’s such a — yeah, it’s so important, you know, to just not have a plan, to, like, just kind of see what — like you’re saying, like, spur of the moment. It’s a nice — the nice thing, hopefully by summer that’ll be easier, because hopefully we’ll have more tables.
Ross Kenyon: Yeah, that’s tough. What was your plan — I’m glad you — y’all, Sea Creatures, survived, seemingly. I guess I don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors, but seems like you did okay. And [unclear]. I don’t want to pry, but is your plan basically just get your feet on the ground, try to get back to normal? Because I feel like there’s so many tentacles in this.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, we have six of the ten restaurants open, trying to get — I mean, so with the PPP loans through the government, which is really the only thing that saved us. We have — you know, there’s — we don’t want more debt, so we have to be really diligent about making sure that we have staff here when the guests are here, so that we can get it forgiven. Which is — thankfully that’s not the math that I have to do, my business partner does that.
But we are going to be open all the way, we don’t know. Like, it’s hard to say, like, what it’s going to be like. I’m happy that both of you are very excited about going out to eat. Part of me was, like, kind of starting to worry, I’m like, people are going to get so excited about cooking at home all the time that they’re going to eat out less, because people ate out a lot before the pandemic, which, you know, was awesome. It was very different than, like, the go-out-for-your-anniversary kind of dinner. But yeah. So we’re, you know, we’re going for it. We’re going to open as much as we can back up, and we have leases and, you know, loans and all, you know — we have to open. You know what, I don’t know what else to do.
We’re all tied to it personally, and, you know, you kind of have to survive it. So, you know, we’ve been really lucky to have staff that have endured it with us, so that we can open back up and summer’s here, which is great. The vaccines, I think, couldn’t have come at a better time. I mean, it’s, like, unreal, really. It feels like such a huge emotional boost to feel like we can, you know, be safe and hug people. My favorite new thing in the world to do, it’s just hug anyone. So good, like, wait, I’m not done — like, the longer it goes, the — like, hugs that used to creep me out, I’m like, I don’t care, I’m going to keep hugging you for a minute.
Yeah, so we’re busy, we’re going to open up. We opened up Pioneer Square, General Porpoise, which is, you know — there’s not a lot happening down there, but we have a really great neighbor that we want to support. And yeah, we’re just trying to be around, because the city is so — yeah, everything just moved out. So I think, until people — it’s not going to all happen at once. I think there’s this idea that, like, we’re going to take the boards down and things are going to be good again, but it’s going to take a long time for enough people to show back up, or, you know, build new businesses that go back into the places where there’s been businesses that have shut down.
Radhika Moolgavkar: Well, I’m optimistic, and I’m looking forward to seeing what the Seattle restaurant scene creates, because it’s been, like — to your point earlier, what a fantastic last decade it’s been here. So I’m really excited to see what new comes out. But I want to know what your favorite Seattle restaurant is that’s not your own. So, on a night where you might want to go out to a restaurant, where would you head out to?
Renee Erickson: Oh man, I don’t know that I have a favorite, I have a lot. I just ate at Cafe Lago last Saturday and I hadn’t eaten there in probably two years, which — I sound like [unclear] people that I like, I’m like, oh, thanks. But I love Carla, and her food, and it was the first restaurant I ate at indoors. And I think, you know, for me, like, what is funny is, it’s, you know, Italian — obviously, she’s from Tuscany — and I wanted to go there, I think, mostly for nostalgic reasons. Like, you know, it’s a place that felt really — you know, it was, like, a place that I went to when I was young, learning how to cook, and it’s food that is, you know — I know exactly, I knew exactly what it’s like, what I get there. Like, I knew that I wanted her lasagna and her caponata, and yeah, it just, like, felt like home to me, and so that’s a place that I love.
[unclear] It seems like Delancey is not open, but I go there a lot. We walk there from my house. I love Delancey, Brandon worked with me for a long time, and same thing, it feels like you’re in someone’s kitchen, which I love. I think that’s the part — I mean, I think also, being in — having my own restaurants, I like to go places where, like, I don’t get food sent to me. I don’t want to eat — I just want to, like, go in and eat food and feel normal and not think about work. And so if someone wants to talk to me about restaurants when I’m at the restaurant, it’s hard, because I just want to not think about it. And so Brandon and I have a pact where we don’t talk about it when we’re each in each other’s restaurants, so that we can just eat pizza and drink wine.
I love — trying to think of where — I just ate at Local Tide in Fremont, and it’s a sweet sandwich shop that has really beautiful, all local, sustainable seafood. He’s doing a really great job, I think it’s really fun.
I think what I’m most excited about is what you’re talking about, like, what’s going to happen with the food scene. It’s like, there’s going to be a lot of, like, twenty-somethings that are going to open restaurants, and it’s going to be awesome. Because they’re going to be — they won’t have, you know — it’ll be like me 25 years ago, but better, because the food’s better, people are more interested in eating. Kids, you know — calling them kids — young people are way more cultured than I certainly was at 20. I mean, like, it’s amazing what, you know, the food that they can create and are willing to experiment with. So that, to me, is the most exciting part about all of this, is there’s going to be a lot of food that is bold and personal, which I think is something that has been missing in food.
And a lot of cases, I think people create food for what they think people want, versus creating food for themselves. And I think there’s, like, there’s definitely in the last year particularly, like, a permission given to just be like, f*ck it, I’m going to cook what I want to cook, and it’s what my mom taught me, or it’s, you know, from where my family’s from. Or, you know, I think that’s a nice — where I just sort of — sorry, [unclear]. Explicit now, it’s obvious, and I’m like, oh man. Yeah, like, that, you know, that’s the kind of world that I’m excited about.
There’s a place not far from my house called Gracia, Mexican food, that I really love. So, the bagel crazy — holy hell, there’s bagels everywhere. But I finally was like, all right, I should probably have a bagel, because I, like, grew up on, like, bagels and, in college, ate them. Like, they’re fine. But we don’t —
Ross Kenyon: Mount Bagel, is that what you’re talking about now?
Renee Erickson: Those, but yeah, like, all of that where it’s just so many bagels. But I went to Rachel’s Bagels, but it was at Porkchop & Co. in Ballard. So I had the tuna fish bagel, it was delicious, with za’atar all over it. So I don’t know, where else do I eat? There’s so many good places.
Ross Kenyon: You gave us plenty of places to think about, Renee.
Renee Erickson: [unclear] So hard. So my friend — if you guys — it’s what I do when I get home, I’m like, I’m not going to drive to wherever. [unclear], who’s one of the owners of London Plane, just opened Saint Bread, which I’ve not been to yet. So that’s my list. I’ve tried, and it’s been sold out a few times, so I’m like, okay, I’m going to — I know he’s probably going to be like, shut up, Renee, come anytime, but yeah, you’ve got to pull your shopping cart. I don’t want to do that.
But yeah, I’m just excited about people making food that makes them happy, for a change, than trying to make us happy, you know, as guests. I think that will happen if you make food that you love. So I love stuff like that too. I’ve been reading Dominique Crenn’s book. It’s, like, you know, just this book of beautiful food from Brittany, and, like, reminds you of home, and something that’s, like, distinctly sad about, like, a restaurant that’s doing, like, a filet mignon and, like, a mushroom sauce. I’m like, yeah, do you even care? Have you ever been to France? No. Like, who cares?
I think that’s the thing. I really hope that people just really embrace the idea that culturally, like, diverse food is so much better than all that same sh*t that you would get at a hotel or whatever, that became, like, what was considered food, and it really never was, but nobody thought about it. It just — we’re like, oh, it’s what I’m supposed to think. It’s good, so it must be. And now it’s just, you know, gloves are off. It’s so exciting to see that.
You know, where I think Seattle is a really great place for it, because we have such amazing food already. So yeah, and then all the ingredients and everything. And Meesha is really great too, Indian food, love me some. Yeah, she — there was just a great story about her, and I’ll get another woman’s name just [unclear], but just talking about, like, women opening restaurants during the pandemic in Seattle and how badass they are, and proof that, like — I think if you do love what you’re doing and you’re proud of it, in a time where people actually, hopefully, are caring, you know, more than historically, it will make, like, for the greatest experiences. So yeah, but her food is delicious. It’s [unclear] three months. I was [unclear] about it, so I was driving home and I was like, oh, I’m going to get this food. And we’ve been back a few times. I haven’t eaten in yet, but I’ve taken it out a lot, and it’s delicious, and, yeah, I just love all those flavors, and so it’s just so good.
Ross Kenyon: Well, Renee, obviously listeners should go out and buy your book Getaway, which is beautiful and very delicious. Radhika, you give it a thumbs up, and I will keep cooking out of this thing. It’s pressure. Is there any way else that listeners, if they dig what you’re about, can support you?
Renee Erickson: Oh man. I mean, I think eating out as much as you can, not even just for me, but, like, you know, if you have the ability to do so, like, go. Don’t bring your gift cards for, what, wait, a year, on the gift cards — if you can. If you can’t, then come use them. And yeah, just, you know, be patient, I would say. The restaurants are — not that I want to, like, give excuses for things, but it’s just, everything’s, like, so much harder during, you know, trying to serve people and be safe and all that.
So, I mean, I think now we’re hopefully, like, through the worst part of it, but, you know, it has not been an easy year for anyone that’s worked out in the world, especially in hospitality. So [unclear], just come and have fun and eat lots.
Ross Kenyon: Drink white wine. Do you hate red wine, or do you just think it’s —
Renee Erickson: I just think it’s funny. I mean, I think in the 20 — however — 25 years of doing this, like, I think originally I would have just been like, you know, lots of eye rolls for people that would drink red wine with oysters, and now I’m just like, oh, sh*t, I don’t care, just do what you want. But I still don’t think it’s a good idea. So, you know, white wine and red — whites do much better with food, reds can be quite overpowering. I don’t know. People’s palates.
Radhika Moolgavkar: There’s a time and place for sure. I mean, I do love some red wine, but not at the beginning of my meal, that’s for sure.
Renee Erickson: Yeah, I don’t know. Just happy that people still want to come out to eat, so that feels good.
Ross Kenyon: We can speculate wildly on that mystery another time, I think. But in the meantime, thanks for being with us tonight. That was super fun.
Renee Erickson: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you.
Ross Kenyon: Thanks. Yeah. See you soon. Bye bye. Thank you so much for listening. If you like the show, please rate and review it in Apple Podcasts and/or Stitcher. It really helps us a lot to get this content to a wider audience. If you think what we’re doing is useful, interesting, fun — hopefully all three — we certainly appreciate your rating and review. You can keep up with Nori at Nori.com, where there is a newsletter, that’s Nori.com/subscribe, there’s podcasts, there’s a whole bunch else. Or you can send us an email at podcast@nori.com. We are also now on Patreon, at patreon.com slash Nori podcast, if you’d like more content, engagement and community. And thank you so much for your support.
